Photo by Micah E. Wood
The band, manners manners, celebrates their record release for I Held Their Eyes, I Kissed Them All Friday, July 26th on 20/20 Records, and the band – Jack Pinder (vocals/guitar), HS (vocals/drums), and Jes Welter (bass) – chatted up the new record with These Subtle Sounds.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
These Subtle Sounds: You all have your record release. It’s sort of like a record release this Friday coming up at the Ottobar.
HS: Yep. It’s our record release Friday at Ottobar.
TSS: So, the new album, I Held Their Eyes, I Kissed Them All. I’ve had a chance to listen to it, and I have to say it’s one of those listens that when you’re driving, which is usually where I listen to stuff now, you do kind of forget what’s going on around you. Which is to say, it’s a great album, but it’s one you really can’t have in the background. It’s not background music.
HS: Thank you
TSS: Where did you get the title for the new album?
Jack: So they are lyrics from the bridge of “Cinemattachine,” which is track two and they are HS’s lyrics.
TSS: So, the line itself is a line from that part of the song is generally referencing – both on a micro level in the 20th Century and the 21st Century – like the history of police repression and oppression and State repression of queer and trans people. But in the broader scope of history, the history of oppression of minorities. That line itself is referencing two aspects of queer community specifically; like within a queer bar or a queer community setting and the image of police raids as well as the image of cruising. And it also holds both the image of, in a liberatory way, an attitude of both solidarity but also the connection of sexuality between people in the community. The line itself is both slutty – because it references cruising – but it’s also referencing mutual solidarity and the role community has played in keeping us alive.
I know, in general, mutual aid solidarity of minority communities keeps each other alive. And how much of that is so contingent upon the love and camaraderie of the people there. And I think that line also hints at in a little way there’s a small tone of it that represents perhaps even a sense of betrayal. I think the image that came to me was…
Jack: Judas
HS: Like for Judas, at the same, so it’s kind of like a multi-layered image. But something that I thought was prescient and was poignant to me was that during the last eight years in some ways there’s never been more visibility and things have also never been more precarious.
TSS: As I was going through the album, I noticed the first track on the album, “Big outdoor party,” kind of bookends the seven songs that are on there. I noticed those two songs are unlike anything else on the album. I didn’t know if that was a conscious thing. It seems to be like a waltz that’s unlike a lot of the other material.
HS: Jack love a waltz
Jack: I do love a waltz! [laughs]
HS: Also, Jack loves putting things in 6/8. I also think that for some reason you think 6/8 rocks. [laughs] That is a cool thing that I think you do. Also, those songs are deeply personal to you.
Jack: Yeah, so those are songs about grief and I wrote them about my dad who passed in 2018. He was the kind of guy who really brought people together in the community. And my favorite memories of him are of him throwing some kind of family or community party. The impeccably planned bit is like a little bit of a joke. For example, he would be really intense about the bean bag toss game [laughs] The cornhole and he would do brackets of cornhole and no matter what was going on in the party if it was your turn to do the bracket you had to go up. So, I really wanted to paint the picture of even though it was chaotic it was just right and I wanted these two songs to be arresting and intentionally stand out.
I think the inspiration for both of them was very Neko Case. One of my favorite songwriters. So I wanted to have a short version that got right to the point and then a longer version that took you on a kind of geologic time journey.
HS: I hope this is okay with me adding it’s both personal and then it becomes a more impersonal aspect of “We are all living in impermanence.” But also, we are in a state of constant change.
Jack: Yeah. For me that bit in the reprise where you can sift through all the dirt in the world and you’ll still be impermanent. And the things that connect us are as real as ever. The things that connect us matter as much as anything.
TSS: It’s funny that you mentioned Neko Case. Because, totally a as complement, when I listened to the record, I wrote down, “cowboy waltz” because I got this feeling, kind of like Americana / Country-tinged material that Neko tends to do outside of The New Pornographers.
Jack: I take that as a tremendous complement. Thank you.
There’s one thing I noticed from the earlier EP and some singles. There are a lot more harmonies on this record, especially in “Straight Cost of Living.” Was that kind of a conscious thing? Moving more towards harmony?
Jack: Yeah. Overall, this group of songs was a very different songwriting process than the previous singles and EPs. HS brought a lot more of their harmonic sensibility. That’s HS doing both of those vocal parts in “Straight Cost of Living.”
HS: You’re on there.
Jack: Yes. [laughs] I’m on the chorus.
Jes: Also, the trajectory from the First In Line EP to this record [follows the] changing dynamics of the band — going from a band with a front person to being a band with more than one front person, or not really having a front person. HS is the front person for half the songs on this record, and Jack is the front person of the other half. And that didn’t used to be the case, so it’s a piece of growth. And also, sonically, in part a lot of the songwriting for this record was done during the super lockdown era of the pandemic when we were not necessarily all in the same room together. We had a lot more time and ability to think in different ways and generate songs in different ways and add more sonic layers to them. The result is that it’s definitely a more complicated sound this time around than First In Line, which is more a document of the three of us playing.
Jack: I’ll say about the working remotely in songwriting thing – in the high days of lockdown era we were working on the idea session and I remember feeling like, this is gonna sound like nihilistic, but like “I don’t know what the future of the world is” and why not make the most produced thing that we can and if we get to perform live again we’ll figure it out and we did. I think we really did. Jes has started working in a lot of samples and synth bits and auxiliary instrumentation. We’ve found ways of bringing the denser studio stuff to our [live show].
HS: Yeah. I think that after the idea session it was like we can create things that have maybe more ear candy and that also we can translate to a live environment, and Jes has added so many cool different types of textures and instrumentation too with this record.
Jes: I was just gonna say the idea session really is the bridge between the two records between First In Line and this record in terms of our evolving sound.
TSS: We’re all in Baltimore, and I know that as someone who was born and raised here, I know there’s always been a vibrant music scene here. I know you’ve been working with a lot of local bands. Tell me a little about the music scene here.
Jack: So I feel speaking for myself the past 15 years have been a really interesting evolution seeing queer community and the rock music community kind of knit together in these interesting ways and it’s been really cool to be a part of that. I myself entered the Baltimore music scene through Rahne Alexander. who used to be in The Degenerettes and was also in Santa Librada.
HS: I love her
Jack: So it was cool to have sort of a trans guiding light in the music scene, but I can only speak for myself. What about you guys, what do you think of Baltimore?
HS: Yeah. I love the music community here. It’s a place that’s very accessible and open-minded. Both in terms of musical palette – easy to engage with – and a really supportive community of musicians and artists. I know on this album we worked with J [Robbins] who we’ve worked with before. He’s so integral to the community here and DC. And we also brought in $100 Girlfriend which includes our friends from Super City and these are folks who are close to us and have been playing shows with us and providing mutual support for a long time. Folks who have some of the best musicianship in the city. Like truly amazing virtuoso players. So that was such an honor that they would work with us on “Yr Well.”
Two of the members, John and Dan, are going to be playing with us on Friday as well.
Jack: Jes has a history in the music scene playing in a number of bands.
Jes: Sure. My primary other band is The Stalking Horses with Sarah Pinsker who in addition to being a brilliant songwriter is an acclaimed Science Fiction novelist as well. We’ve known each other for many, many years and are long-time creative collaborators.
I do want to shout J Robbins out a little more. It is such a gift to have him here in Baltimore and to be able to make records with him. His skill, artistry, and creative judgment are all through this record and so many other records he has worked on. Even before getting to know him and work with him we knew his work and the work that preceded him in the building that is now Magpie Cage Recording Studio which has been a recording studio for years under a different name where so many of our favorite records were made.
Jack: Shudder To Think
Jes: Shudder To Think. The “Pony Express Record,” Mind Science of The Mind, J’s Jawbox records and it is so incredibly cool to make records in that space.
And he is such a steady warm presence and cheerleader for you when you are recording with him. So, we’ve always felt in very good hands with him. Just the fact that he’s here in town is incredible.
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The new album by manners manners, I Held Their Eyes, I Kissed Them All, comes out Friday, 7/26/24. Don’t miss the band when they play The Ottobar the same day along with A Giant Dog.
Ottobar
July 26, 2024
Door 7:30 pm
A Giant Dog
Manners Manners
Magic Rockers of Texas
DLI
